"I don't see removal ever happening. But one possible approach would be to say "all T2 BPO owners will have their BPOs exchanged for a stack of invented T2 BPCs equating to N years of production"."

Naw I was quoting crap, it flies from T2BPO supporters non stop.

When 78% of a T2 item is producded by BPOsomething is broken. That means CCP gave 78% of that market to a few select players. While the rest of eve has to work like mad at 22%. This is broken it always has been.

Remove T2BPO or forever be reminded that no matter how hard you try at the end of the day CCP hand outs decide who is at the top particularly in T2BPO manufacture.

78% of that market to a few select players

When I see that stat, I wonder who the 22% were? Are they roleplayers who simply want to be able to say they built their own ships and don't care that it cost them more? Or are they dumb inventors who decided to invent and manufacture this item before running the numbers and determining if it was profitable or not?

My neighbor got an Iphone 12, I cant get it in this fair market so I should call Apple and have them take the stolen property back.

It would be BAD PRESS for apple if word got out that every one else is forced to buy lower end stuff while the rich .001% can get what wont come out for the next 12 years.

what exactly does real life money have to do with T2 BPO's?
your argument is invalid.

the fact of the matter is, there was a short term raffle, where people where hand chosen, to receive something and the rest of the customers where not even allowed to complain about, well im complaining about exactly that..

every one just wants to take it away from you, in fact its NOT you or any other PERSON who owns tech 2 blueprint originals, its T2 BPO's that need to be replaced with New, Market friendly, creative and fun for every one solutions.

people are desperately trying to hold onto their unfair disadvantage by trolling a thread with comments like "Moaning" this isnt a forum about ****, and the childish insults only further point out to disrespectful and irresponsible hands that hold onto Tech 2 Blueprint originals.

unfair disadvantage

At no point has anyone worked hard to be gifted a T2BPO lets just clear that up right now.

Yeah but T2BPO is a bad advert for eve it goes against everything that CCP states the game is. It is good to keep T2BPO in the spot light to show potential subscritptions and other partys that they exist.

Yes because lets all deny that T20 ever happened or that people were given T2BPO for nothing

Lets pretend that they never dropped from Rats during events aimed at certain players

the fact that they can not be stolen

and never expire is not a problem at all.

CCP did create invention in order to generate T2 production. Now that people can generate T2 BPCs, it's appropriate that the originals should be removed and T2 production require inventn for everyone.

Whats good do T2 BPO's bring me, my friend over there and the rest of eve online?

With the planned changes to moon mining and data cores CCP has the perfect opportunity to either remove T2BPO or just make them irrelevant by buffing invention to exceed T2BPO in ME. Hopefully T2BPO's get the long needed nerf or removal finally.

T2BPO's get the long needed nerf or removal finally.

Merchants would definitely benefit from the removal of T2 BPO's and Most definitely benefit from NPC seeded T2 BPC's (more stuff to sell)

Fixed that for you. T2 BPOs (and blueprints in general) are something that can be used without any risk, unlike every other item in the game. Rare/unique ships/modules/etc must be undocked, and therefore put at risk, to use. For something as valuable as a T2 BPO this is unacceptable. Really, it's unacceptable for anything in EVE, regardless of value.

If stations were destructible, on the other hand, I might not be complaining.

Akita T I did read your previous post but they are full of errors..

Here's what he "knows", in a nutshell:
1. Some people make absurd amounts of money from industry.
2. He makes very little from industry.
3. This could not possibly be because of some personal failing and so must surely be the result of some inherent unfairness in the game.

Because some one with a BPO undercuts them.

there is no maruader BPO

Well then orignal point is invalid Maurauders will be profitable

Just want to point out, the most profitable Industrialists are all in lowsec/nulsec where the minerals are 20-50% cheeper then highsec.

Indeed I do think 78% of all tech 2 items are created from BPO's this sounds about right to me.

Curious, how would you react if Invention was buffed up enough to be of competition to BPO's

This could have bin the first valid argument, if you hadn't turned it into a Piarr for the OP

Thread was locked once allready and then unlocked but seeing as there are multiple threads .

Relating the deaths of millions to our little irrelevant computer game hobby, you represent T2BPO well . Please continue hopefully in the next few posts you will earn yourself a ban.

Instead of campaigning endlessly for the removal of T2 BPO's from the game, why not go in the opposite direction and campaign for some mechanism that would allow the creation of T2 BPO's back into the game.

A Research Discovery Processs, requires some mad research skills, 500 or so datacores with a chance based increased with decryptors blah blah blah to score a T2 BPO.

just sayin..

Well at least T2BPO's are being removed from high sec which is a small nerf.

Apparently any char who complains about how bad the T2BPO system is my alt. As it stands I have at least 10 accounts :) I'm glad I am the champion of the make EVE real campaign.

I missed something, what has changed exactly about invention mechanics with the last patch ? more runs ? cheaper datacores ? More decryptor drops ? I don't get it, please someone tell me.

i would love to see a democratic vote on this issue - altho the outcome would be fairlly presumable... who else but the owners would support the BPOs further existance?

I've just invented my first T2 BPC; I've not enjoyed any aspect of the invention process

but that would be understandable if you would have added the "prowd owner of a (several) xxx bpo" before or after your name / signature... so? care to edit your reply?

and while we step the path of the police department (half spoken words, that is), best answer (similar approach) to your above iquiry... IF that would be the case, would your "Internal Affairs" (be able to) provide imunity?

i am suggesting, actually i am SAYING loud and clear, that the only suporters of the "bpos should stay" ideea are the bpos owners... which i find to be normal and understand'able...

i'm sure game-features-design-team could easily come up with a nice result within a mere 1/2 hour if there would be a real interess to solve it... thats why the "?" marks keep rising with every new VU that doesnt address the issue...

if a vote or a poll would ever be organized* covering the active playerbase, we would learn that 90-95% are for the bpos removal... this would be a good enough reason?

That's right my alts are everywhere muwwahwhwahwahwabut for realz .

- what would be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor profit (more, same, less)
- what would be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers (more, same, less)

There you go:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789
Also rephrased to be more clear that it's about opinions :)

I ignored your replies for good reason, yet that reason isn't something I'm going to commit to writing; for now I ask you to accept that instinct told me not to reply until now. .

war with an alliance with access to T2BPOs is pointless because they have infinite supply at less than material cost (with experience I know this not to be exactly true, yet the perception of many noob players is that it is.

Yes, CCP have attempted to address the balance, but it still appears to be really unbalanced

Poll won't work because the guys I know with T2BPOs have a lot of alts; I can only assume that all T2BPO owners are the same

it still doesn't change the fact that I think I can never compete with a guy with more than one T2BPO

I see no justification to get rid of them atm; if CCP Diagoras or EyoG could delve into how many T2 BPOs exist at the moment and what level of impact they have on the Invention market, I would consider that enough information to make a decision.

errr... looks like you forgot to mention its a trade'able item and you could sell it anytime you want or you see fit to... so stop crying about the huge ROI time: investment is there anyway... all the "return" is pure proffit...

and since you allready mentioned the "passive" magic word: that was a good enough reason for nerfing datacores... now that they start the "NO to passive" crusade maybe, just maybe, ccp would care to look into ALL the "passive" endeavours with the same "lets screw it" eyes...

well... never thought it is imperative to link all the arguments with game related issues... and while we are at "brought up arguments" i see no reason why only those pro-removal should argue their position... what about the arguments for "dont touch the T2BPOs"?

Sweet, please spawn more T2BPO for newer players please or ....

or remove those that you gifted to older players or be reminded time and time again why T2BPO needs removed.

. i also want to point out that i DO own some T2BPOs (at least one of those would worth well in excess of 100bill at current market prices) and i wouldnt sell any of them no matter the offer... therefore i could say i'm considering the matter both sides...

sure, I BET If I would ask you now, to proove your ownership of T2 Ship BPO`s, we would just hear an excuse why you cant/want do that, right?

- i'll ignore your 1st req. as i'm not here to "prove" anything...

you may find it odd but i dont use to talk about owning T2BPOs because some sort of guilt feeling... it may sound foolish but it isnt... at least not to me...
- none of my previous postings said other then i said in the last one... NONE... maybe i wasnt crystal clear but you should blaim my english for that...

The point was that content was put into the game that effects a huge stake in the market yet is no longer being given out. It would have been ok if the items had some sort of end date but they do not.

Because 70% of T2 line is not huge? Uhm ok keep telling yourself that T2BPO was not a huge mistake.

As for providing evidence go use google or check old forum posts

My opinion that anyone dumb enough to support T2BPO is probably a big enough idiot to steal from their employer or do the DEVS at CCP seriously support invention running alongside T2BPO's? Because if that is the case I will have to create a new group to describe them.)

[quote=shar'ra matcevsovski]

Thread was closed once before and all that occurred was several threads on the T2BPO discussion opening by several different players.

But yhe, the T2 situation is in a current state of accidenlied.

An item that bitter vets had access to but new players are encouraged to spend 1000's of dollars on to obtain so they can succeed in producing T2 lines

staffing problems and bad advertising across the entire web. T2BO brings nothing but negativity to the game and continues to harm CCP/EVE's image and the game itself.

Cut of this diseased limb or for ever have it hanging dead off EVE so people can sit and point to it and say ''well it's not really an E sport,'.

I rather have the titan, more fun =)

Kinda amusing how CCP is threatning to remove hard won and worked ISK from a goon LP and market manipulation scheme when CCP itself was dumping T2BPO's into the hands of chosen players that netted them billions of ISK for zero effort.

I don't think anyone here would suggest that the Devs think T2BPO was a good idea

Akita the initial cost of t2BPO is not high, it was RP cheap and easy and as you know this is one of the major problems of T2BPO. You talk about high ROI but the initial investment of Research Points was minuscule to the amount of ISK

T2BPO's produce on top of their actual value for being able to do so with out fail each month. ROI on T2BPO was immediate and massive.

If there is no reason to remove T2BPO why have CCP not introduced T3 BPO's,

If there is nothing wrong with T2BPO's why has CCP stopped producing them?

CCP remove T2BPO make Eve real.

Mans got a point, Why arent new T2 BPO's being introduced or New T3 BPO's?

Perhaps im wrong?

Very professional post, Oversimplified, almost compelling, still doesn't provide any kind of answer to a problem.

What do I mean? I believe I was pretty clear as to what I meant, in plain English.
I dont know if they will ever remove T2 BPO's but the fact still stands, no new T2 or T3 BPO's are being introduced..

CCP should take the forum whine and the unsubs which will quickly be replenished by new players, higher player retention and of course new subs for invention alts.

Is there a problem?

For now, disregarding the specifics I mentioned, do you think the idea could ever be used to achieve a compromise? Do you think limiting the production capabilities of the t2 BPOs is even worth considering?

You cant,
Thank you.

P.S. Tinfoilhat moment, Brewlar is a Tech cartel alt !

Can't wait for the next one.

Um, not finding anything?

But I won't watch another Michael Bay film. Transforms 1....ok, not bad...different take. Fun film. 2 and 3? I could crap on three pieces of paper and made a better plot. I don't get why people keep paying that guy to make movies.

Speaking of T2BPO's though, favorite part in Star Trek 6....the last part when Spock gives him his torpedo that could detect gas emissions ("Well the thing's gotta have a tailpipe")...and Kirk says "Fire."...loved it. Although the final scene with Nero in the Black Hole and Kirk asking him if he needs assistance...Spock's reply almost as good.

Yes they can. They can keep prices lower because they don't have to use time and money to invent T2 BPCs (do you really think it's free?).

+1 for removing them. I'm not even an industrial player but I see why this is flat out stupid.

They can't copy those BPOs?

Large POS already costs 1-2 billion a month to run.And that's labs offline.

Any reason why I should use something else other than large deathstar/****star in hisec?

In 1.0 system you need those.



So, small tower with two guns and as many labs and hangars as possible in 0.5. Should I put all my BPOs there for you to steal?

If POS is in system without stations or CORP DOESN'T have OFFICE in that system, BPOs must be in POS. What part of that you don't understand?

And how there's towers in 0.8 and 0.9 systems then?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1653133#post1653133



I can see all nearby towers in d-scan. I've also seen few in 0.8 and 0.9 systems just by warping around.

Wouldn't it be funny if somebody actually launched a tower in a 0.9 system and just left it there thinking it's anchored and this guy flew past one without just picking it up for quick cash ?

judging by his post history, all his posts are pure troll :) so our first guesses where right.. troll. but then again there are plenty of not too clever people in this game.

If I want to manufacture most of the components, why I'm not allowed to do that?

Well, that's not stupid, then...just inconvenient.

I was just trying to figure out if there was something I was missing. You're not talking about something inherently stupid, just situationally stupid. If all you're doing is copying T1 BPOs and inventing, how is there even that much risk? Copying takes a bit so if you're away for over 24 hours I suppose those might be at risk. Invention doesn't take that long and if you're successful you just take it with you. It just doesn't seem risky when, for many people, their structures are the biggest hit the owner will feel, not the few million in T1 BPO's he was working with. So for many it would seem to be pointless to worry about locking BPO's in a station just because 'everyone says so'.

Death star needs more Fuel than unfit towers,
there exist 5000 T2 BPOs of each type,
BPO`s have to be in the labs,
logic is stupid,
...Guides

I don't care if a T2BPO is worth billions I'd like to trade in my RP for one please. No body would moan if CCP sold T2BPO's for

T2BPO's are disliked by the majority of EVE players

I was a little surprised to see this still very active thread because I stopped posting

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=135359
had 7 people opposing T2BPO's before an over zealous ISD closed the topic, I expect it will be re-opened shortly, after all this topic was once locked too :).
.

1. Allow invention to have a natural 100% ME and PE instead of the -10%.

2. Prevent locked BP's from being used in manufacture, only allow unlocked BP's to manufacture.

3. Stop remote BP manufacturing if owners want to produce from POS make them put their assets at risk inside a pos structure.

T2BPO owners had several years of unopposed ISK making manufacture.

[quote=shar'ra matcevsovski] I'm playing on Serenity and Tin City EVE online which is superior to CCP's although I do not doubt that tin city will ruin their version by introducing game breaking content at some point to.

. Even if I do leave the game someone else will just notice the unavoidable problems about T2BPO's like all the anti T2BPO martyrs before me.

[quote=Pipa Porto] We all know that you own T2 BPOs.

Oh... we have expert here.

I'd be ready to bet that you can't complete one single sentence in Finnish or Swedish

If T2 BPOs are terrible investments then why do they still exists in-game?

That's what I thought, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

I would have to build few specific modules/ships to get decent profit. Otherwise I would get very small profit or actually lose money:

First you have to buy Covetor BPO for 20b and then research it (takes a year or two).
.

Did you research it on NPC station?

No, you didn't.

i think t2 bpc should be nerfed, they are destroying the t2bpo's. invention needs to be nerfed and made much harder so my t2bpo's becomes more valueble.

Hi. I wasn't going to comment in this thread but I see it's still going. I'm speaking as someone who "won" a T2 BPO years ago and made a nice profit on it.

There are no BPOs for Tech2 BS or Tech3 and the markets for them are fine.

You want to shoot players? Go for it.
You want a BPO for a Tech 1 ship? Buy it.
You want to make special Tech 2 items? Invention.
You want to produce Technetium? Alchemy or claim a Tech moon.

That goes against everything Eve Online is about. In this way T2 BPOs are probably the worst feature in the game. Sorry, T2 BPO owners. With no other meaningful asset can you say "sorry this is mine and you can't have one like it, ever".

If the Golem is not profitable then invent something else. If enough people do this then it will become profitable. Just like all other industry in the game. BTW you might want to move out of Jita. I would suggest Lonetrek or maybe the Rens area.

There's nothing wrong with buying or selling stuff on forums. What I'm saying is, getting something on the forum should be an option, not a necessity. With anything else in the game, I can get it in-game if I work enough towards it.

They give out unique ships, right (Freki, Mimir, Adrestia, Utu, etc)? I'm not sure how much practical value they have other than bragging rights and being collectors' items.

With no other meaningful asset can you say "sorry this is mine and you can't have one like it, ever".

eh anything the devs exploited for BoB back in the day should of been removed from game. .

I posted for the bitter vets and the Devs of CCP
But they would not post back and they wouldn't follow me
I posted for the noobs and for the good Kugu
They came with me and the thread went on:

Post, post, wherever you may be
I am the lord of the T2BPO whine thread, said he
And I lead you all, wherever you may be
And I lead you all in the thread, said he
.

T2 BPO owners set the prices. For example Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II.

If there's no profit to be made from BPOs then there's no reason to keep them in game.

Those BPOs cost you exactly 0 isk. so 40 billion per month for 0 isk investment is quite good.

Isn't there a limited number of each type of t2bpo in game (thought I read 3 of each max). So yeah

T2 BPOs are rare but they are not collectors' items. .

Also I think one point I'm trying to make is, they should not be collector's items any more than a Raven BPO should be.

they have a real purpose isn't duplicated by any other item: to create T2 without the invention process and make a ton of ISK while doing so. So they have unique purpose in the game other than being collected

you're pretty stupid to think ccp has a way to track that. why do you think the devs havn't spoken about how many of the t2 bpos are there in game are.

No one complains about rare hulls because rare hulls are easily popped or stolen if they are used or shared, The point is that T2BPO's can not be stolen when shared nor can they be destroyed as there is zero reason to move them from a station. A perfect nerf would be to only allow T2BPO's to be used outside high sec and only physically in a pos. This would bring them in line with rare ships. You could keep your t2bpo in a station alongside a unique ship but you should not be able to use it or profit from it.

I have to agree, Not moving T2 BPO's is not good for the economy, they should at the very least be made in a way where they can easily be stolen if shared.

it would be nice to see T2 manufacture move to Lowsec or nulsec

First off, if you want a ship with a web bonus you can use a Loki or I believe Huginn.

I agree 100%. I've been calling on CCP to destroy the T3 market for months now. Make T3 bpo's a reality it's time to bring wormhole dwellers over to my side.

Can you please stop making out that T2BPO's somehow cost their owners massive amounts of effort or isk as it's simply not the case

And everyone also knows that some parts of the lottery was fixed which means some person where gifted with t2 bpos. Most of them where in BoB back then which was the power house of that era in eve.

How much effort it required from you after you had that research job set up? None. It was, it is and always will be passive income.

It's worth mentioning every single time it is mentioned just so that no one never forgets that someone in CCP *****d *p real bad. And what proof do YOU have that all of those prints where removed? none.

And no I do not have solutions to it. Neither do you. Only thing I have are my opinions which from your point of view sucks and your solutions form my point of view sucks, so no point talking about those.

So mayby something needs to be done about this so the topic would go away once and for all. I'll settle on what ever CCP says as long as they address the matter in some way..

And not saying anything is not an answer.

CCP will tire of noobie industrialist players leaving the game when they find out about T2BPO and will eventual stem the blood flow that is pissing out of the eve economy and player base. It may take many years and eve might slip further down the ladder but eventual they will fix the problem, If they don't eve will die and it won't matter any more.

because we would like to but on fair terms, [we] the 99%

You do realize that buffing invention to increase yield is self-defeating, as it would lower margins even more.

The problem is not invention or T2 BPOs. It's people that value their effort very little, typically with the argument that EVE is a game so they don't care how much they earn, or even if they take a loss, as long as they are having fun.

Building ships is an example of this, because everyone and their grandmother thinks building ships is "cool", regardless of if they are profitable or not (because hundreds of others had the same idea, and are 0.01 ISK-ing each other into oblivion).

Every new industrialist also wants to get into the market, often without doing any market research.

I earn billions of ISK by finding out what the market wants, then supplying it. However, this takes both time and effort, which many are not willing to invest in.

There is LOTS of opportunity for earnings on the current markets. Don't expect ISK to just magically appear in your wallet without putting in some effort.

I am not sure why this thread lives on - I do laugh though.

Take it in another direction, T2 Invention gives you a 0.5% chance to create a T2 BPO - there, I fixed it for you.

Creative opportunities for others to acquire one without having to spend 2 years to get any ROI, devalue the ones that were handed out by corrupt means.

That would not change the profitability of invention. It would also make most decryptors effectively worthless.

And once again, you've failed miserably at showing any shred of evidence to suggest that the current situation of BPOs has any effect on the profitability or accessibility of invention as a profession.

Citizens of New Eden:
These non believers need to be taught a lesson in Manufacture and give up their T2 BPO's in the process, let us rid New eden of this defilement and place this into the Chapters of history.

Was T20 a tank?

Or was it fictional character created by someone?

When I ask for more BPO's I'm talking in regards to T3 production. I'd like to see CCP destroy that along with T2 because why only go 1/2 tard when you can go full tard. 1/2 Tard just annoys me because it's CCP admitting that BPO's are a terrible idea with out actually correcting the problem which is just lazy.

On the other hand, invention results could be rebalanced with regards to skills so that the three appropriate science skills might matter a whole lot more for invention chances, thus actually raising the barrier to entry back at least a bit, so all in all, it should be more or less a wash.

replace the t2 bpo with max run max ME of t2 bpc 'sof the same item
enough BPCs to have 2 year supply of what ever item the bpo was of
so if you have a ship BPC that takes exactly 1 day to make 1 you will get 365x2 BPCs with max ME ( and some PE I guess)

this will be fair to everyone who has the bpo, as they will at the very least have the items to make their isk back, as invention will never have perfect ME they will be getting profit.

the only way it wouldn't be profitable is if someone stupidly bought a t2 bpo for over 2 years worth of manufacturing.

T2 Ships that are used much are easy to sell, furthermore if they have no T3 counterparts. That's the case of logistic cruisers and transport ships. Thus having the bpo for something that will sell easily is valuable, hence the high prices for these bpo (last guardian bpo sold for 220 Bil isks)

Read the thread...

Like I said before... Remove invention and this problem goes away. Only owners of T2 BPOs should be allowed to produce T2 ships/items.

Elite players: players who get info about upcoming changes 2-3 months before everyone else so they can adapt.

It's only a monopoly because they closed the lottery.

A monopoly exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity

bump